Neopian Times Editorial
Fri May 13, 2005 8:22 pm
Very interesting and helpful questions were answered this week. 
Here's the most helpful one I saw.
Neopets strives to an environment where everyone has an equal opportunity to flourish if they obey the rules of game. The Terms and Conditions set forth how the level playing field is maintained. People who use outside programs to cheat the game play, such as autobuyers programs, are not playing fairly. Programs that do not affect the game play, such as ad block, do not give a player an unfair advantage and therefore can be used. Likewise, people can always manually refresh a page. As long as you are not playing unfairly, you have nothing to worry about.
Adblock is legal! Yay! ( I knew it before, but it's reassuring to hear it directly from her
)
Here's the most helpful one I saw.
According to the Neopets Terms & Conditions, players shouldn't use any programs that change the game experience (refreshers, etc.). While I know this has been in effect for a while, it's now said that "if you use such a program on the neopets.com website, you will pay NeoPets, Inc. liquidated damages in the sum of Five Hundred Dollars for each time you use a program." Does this mean that if I use ad-block, or have a computer that doesn't run Flash and can't see ads, that I'm going to be fined?!?!?! - spork_queen
Neopets strives to an environment where everyone has an equal opportunity to flourish if they obey the rules of game. The Terms and Conditions set forth how the level playing field is maintained. People who use outside programs to cheat the game play, such as autobuyers programs, are not playing fairly. Programs that do not affect the game play, such as ad block, do not give a player an unfair advantage and therefore can be used. Likewise, people can always manually refresh a page. As long as you are not playing unfairly, you have nothing to worry about.
Adblock is legal! Yay! ( I knew it before, but it's reassuring to hear it directly from her
)
Fri May 13, 2005 8:35 pm
Is there any way that people under the age of thirteen can use their avatars? I have 79 and I would like to show people my rarest ones when they search me up! Thanks! - toakyle
At the moment I don't believe there is. This doesn't seem very fair, so I will try to figure out some way for you to show off your hard earned avatars
Now, I'm looking forward to that!
Fri May 13, 2005 9:10 pm
Well it's nice to have confirmation that manual refreshing isn't cheating, but it'd be nice to know if using browsers with page freshers built are considered unfair for avatar, opponents, etc.
Fri May 13, 2005 11:48 pm
Huggles wrote:Well it's nice to have confirmation that manual refreshing isn't cheating, but it'd be nice to know if using browsers with page freshers built are considered unfair for avatar, opponents, etc.
I read this editorial as even stronger statement about refreshers. I think Donna is claiming auto refreshers are not considered illegal ... since one could just manually refresh anyway. The "likewise" makes me believe that she is putting it at the same level as ad-block.
Do others read it this way as well? I really think she means that refreshers are fine...
Sat May 14, 2005 2:19 am
You will pay NeoPets, Inc. liquidated damages in the sum of Five Hundred Dollars for each time you use a program
WHAT? Exploiting people's ignorance for monatary gain?! This is wrong! Let's face it, most of the people who use programs are kids, or new comers who just don't understand the game well; they can't seriously be expected to comprehend the consequences of their actions. Actually fining them - and for such an extreme amount - is ridiculous. It would be alot fairer to just freeze them, don't you think?
This seems more like a sneaky way to squeeze money out of people rather than a constructive step forward in gameplay.
WHAT? Exploiting people's ignorance for monatary gain?! This is wrong! Let's face it, most of the people who use programs are kids, or new comers who just don't understand the game well; they can't seriously be expected to comprehend the consequences of their actions. Actually fining them - and for such an extreme amount - is ridiculous. It would be alot fairer to just freeze them, don't you think?
This seems more like a sneaky way to squeeze money out of people rather than a constructive step forward in gameplay.
Sat May 14, 2005 2:29 am
ocean_wave wrote:You will pay NeoPets, Inc. liquidated damages in the sum of Five Hundred Dollars for each time you use a program
WHAT? Exploiting people's ignorance for monatary gain?! This is wrong! Let's face it, most of the people who use programs are kids, or new comers who just don't understand the game well; they can't seriously be expected to comprehend the consequences of their actions. Actually fining them - and for such an extreme amount - is ridiculous. It would be alot fairer to just freeze them, don't you think?
This seems more like a sneaky way to squeeze money out of people rather than a constructive step forward in gameplay.
Woah. I've never seen that before...are we sure thats correct? This is absolutely ridiculous. If neo maintained their mantra that its a kids site, since many of its users are kids, they would realize the foolishness in that.
Sat May 14, 2005 2:30 am
I agree. Most of the poeple that intentionally use hacks, Flash cheating progs (I've used one myself before, though not on Neopets, just for testing purposes alone; you'd be surprised how EASY it is to hack Flash games, which is kinda scary) , autobuyers, autorefreshers, etc. - These people often use proxies to avoid detection and IP bans. Threatening to fine them 500 bucks isn't going to do a thing.
Shall I make a topic and raise a big stink about this?
If someone does get fined, I hope that they bring a civil lawsuit against Neopets since the use of a lot of the programs out there do scarcely any damage to the NeoPets server. To the market? Sure. Freeze and keep freezing if you have to until the hackers become bored. Five hundred dollars is smurfing ridiculous.
Shall I make a topic and raise a big stink about this?
If someone does get fined, I hope that they bring a civil lawsuit against Neopets since the use of a lot of the programs out there do scarcely any damage to the NeoPets server. To the market? Sure. Freeze and keep freezing if you have to until the hackers become bored. Five hundred dollars is smurfing ridiculous.
Last edited by OmniIcyshelf on Sat May 14, 2005 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sat May 14, 2005 2:33 am
Auto-refreshers, whether built into your browser, something that you d/l or even putting something heavy on your F5 can get you frozen and have gotten people frozen.
Manually hitting your F5 or clicking the little refresh thing on your browser toolbar is different. I think? it's the timing. If you're refreshing a page you should wait and let it load completely. That's something an auto-refresher I don't think does. I don't have one in my browser, only going by what I've seen other people say about them.
This is the entire text of that part of the T&C for anyone who hasn't seen it.
Manually hitting your F5 or clicking the little refresh thing on your browser toolbar is different. I think? it's the timing. If you're refreshing a page you should wait and let it load completely. That's something an auto-refresher I don't think does. I don't have one in my browser, only going by what I've seen other people say about them.
This is the entire text of that part of the T&C for anyone who hasn't seen it.
MISCELLANEOUS
You agree not to design, disseminate or use any third party programs designed to change the game play on the site including, but without limitations, programs such as autobuyers, flash game cheats, autofreshers, and snipers. Any use, dissemination or design of such programs is a breach of these Terms you will be responsible for any resulting damages to Neopets. You agree that if you disseminate, design or assist in the design of a third party program that changes the game play on Neopets, you will pay NeoPets, Inc. liquidated damages in the sum of Fifty Thousand Dollars for each such program as liquidated damages. You agree that if you use such a program on the neopets.com website, you will pay NeoPets, Inc. liquidated damages in the sum of Five Hundred Dollars for each time you use a program.
Sat May 14, 2005 2:38 am
"Assissting in the design of"? I do believe that is pure BS regardless of whether or not progs that people write solely for the purpose of exploiting Neopets is wrong. They make the program, sure, but they aren't the ones doing anything directly to Neopets. Therefore, they don't deserve to be fined $500.
Sat May 14, 2005 2:41 am
OmniIcyshelf wrote:"Assissting in the design of"? I do believe that is pure BS regardless of whether or not progs that people write solely for the purpose of exploiting Neopets is wrong. They make the program, sure, but they aren't the ones doing anything directly to Neopets. Therefore, they don't deserve to be fined $500.
...it's a $50,000 fine if you design it.
Sat May 14, 2005 3:04 am
ocean_wave wrote:OmniIcyshelf wrote:"Assissting in the design of"? I do believe that is pure BS regardless of whether or not progs that people write solely for the purpose of exploiting Neopets is wrong. They make the program, sure, but they aren't the ones doing anything directly to Neopets. Therefore, they don't deserve to be fined $500.
...it's a $50,000 fine if you design it.
Wow. What a rip off.
Sat May 14, 2005 5:09 am
500 dollars? Hmm definitely interesting...
Sat May 14, 2005 7:35 am
Wasn't there a thread about this a while back?
I, too, would like to know about autorefreshers built into browsers. I can see why they don't want people endlessly refreshing on the Advent Calender page hoping for REs (although don't you pretty much have to do that if you want the Snow Beast challenger?) or using it to automatically play Dice-A-Roo. On the other hand, I don't see how it conveys an "unfair advantage" to use it to attach a petpetpet, get a Drackonak to eat a cheese, or ease the transfer of your own pet from one account to another.
I agree that, even having answered the question in an Editorial, they still managed to be ambiguous: I think the "likewise" could well be taken to mean that autorefreshers are NOT considered cheating because people can always refresh manually.
The autorefreshers in Opera and Firefox won't refresh at intervals of less than 1 second, which is slower than you can refresh manually (and plenty of time for the page, if not all the images, to load if you have cable). So that's not the issue. I've never understood how holding down the F5 key is supposed to work; unless you do something to slow the repeat rate down? Normally it just makes my borwser seize up and refuse to do anything until you take your finger off the key.
I, too, would like to know about autorefreshers built into browsers. I can see why they don't want people endlessly refreshing on the Advent Calender page hoping for REs (although don't you pretty much have to do that if you want the Snow Beast challenger?) or using it to automatically play Dice-A-Roo. On the other hand, I don't see how it conveys an "unfair advantage" to use it to attach a petpetpet, get a Drackonak to eat a cheese, or ease the transfer of your own pet from one account to another.
I agree that, even having answered the question in an Editorial, they still managed to be ambiguous: I think the "likewise" could well be taken to mean that autorefreshers are NOT considered cheating because people can always refresh manually.
The autorefreshers in Opera and Firefox won't refresh at intervals of less than 1 second, which is slower than you can refresh manually (and plenty of time for the page, if not all the images, to load if you have cable). So that's not the issue. I've never understood how holding down the F5 key is supposed to work; unless you do something to slow the repeat rate down? Normally it just makes my borwser seize up and refuse to do anything until you take your finger off the key.
Sat May 14, 2005 7:40 am
bgryph wrote:Wasn't there a thread about this a while back?
Yes, but apparently many people here missed it.
Seriously, it's just a scare tactic.
There is no way TNT can enforce that rule, since IPs are too unreliable to determine the identity of any person. No need to get upset over it.
Sat May 14, 2005 7:51 am
Not that I approve of those using programs (I don't...) but I just have to chime in and say this is just a scare tactic.
There is no way they could fine users on a global scale. Not everything runs according to the United States sue-crazy law-system. You think they could actually enforce someone in another country to pay some insane fine? The fact is, the game is global, and laws differ from place to place. Their hands are tied, they just don't want anyone to know that.
A good example: Someone in a file sharing hub here (Sweden is BIG on file sharing) got an angry letter from DreamWorks Pictures in regards to a certain movie being shared....take a peek at the letter. I'll bleep out some of the bad words to make it suitable for here...
> August 23, 2004
>
>
> VIA ELECTRONIC MAIL
> AND U.S. MAIL
>
> ThePirateBay.org
> Box 1206
> Stockholm 11479
> SWEDEN
>
>
> Re: Unauthorized Use of DreamWorks SKG Properties
> http://www.thepiratebay.org
>
> To Whom It May Concern:
>
> This letter is being written to you on behalf of our
> client, DreamWorks SKG (hereinafter "DreamWorks").
> DreamWorks is the exclusive owner of all copyright,
> trademark and other intellectual property rights in
> and to the "Shrek 2" motion picture. No one is
> authorized to copy, reproduce, distribute, or
> otherwise use the "Shrek 2" motion picture without
> the express written permission of DreamWorks.
[...]
> As you may be aware, Internet Service Providers can
> be held liable if they do not respond to claims of
> infringement pursuant to the requirements of the
> Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). In
> accordance with the DMCA, we request your assistance
> in the removal of infringements of the "Shrek 2"
> motion picture from this web site and any other sites
> for which you act as an Internet Service Provider.
> We further declare under penalty of perjury that we
> are authorized to act on behalf of DreamWorks and
> that the information in this letter is accurate.
> Please contact me immediately to discuss this matter
> further.
The response:
As you may or may not be aware, Sweden is not a state in the United States of America. Sweden is a country in northern Europe.
Unless you figured it out by now, US law does not apply here.
For your information, no Swedish law is being violated.
Please be assured that any further contact with us, regardless of medium,
will result in
a) a suit being filed for harassment
b) a formal complaint lodged with the bar of your legal counsel, for
sending frivolous legal threats.
It is the opinion of us and our lawyers that you are *bleep* morons, and
that you should please go *bleep* yourself with retractable batons.
Please also note that your e-mail and letter will be published in full on
http://www.thepiratebay.org.
Go *bleeeeep* yourself.
Polite as usual,
anakata
Needless to say, they didn't write back, because, just like Neo, it was all a scare tactic....their hands are tied as well. Thus is the glory of globilization. Thinking you can control legal matters in all of the world in a farce.
There is no way they could fine users on a global scale. Not everything runs according to the United States sue-crazy law-system. You think they could actually enforce someone in another country to pay some insane fine? The fact is, the game is global, and laws differ from place to place. Their hands are tied, they just don't want anyone to know that.
A good example: Someone in a file sharing hub here (Sweden is BIG on file sharing) got an angry letter from DreamWorks Pictures in regards to a certain movie being shared....take a peek at the letter.
I'll bleep out some of the bad words to make it suitable for here...
> August 23, 2004
>
>
> VIA ELECTRONIC MAIL
> AND U.S. MAIL
>
> ThePirateBay.org
> Box 1206
> Stockholm 11479
> SWEDEN
>
>
> Re: Unauthorized Use of DreamWorks SKG Properties
> http://www.thepiratebay.org
>
> To Whom It May Concern:
>
> This letter is being written to you on behalf of our
> client, DreamWorks SKG (hereinafter "DreamWorks").
> DreamWorks is the exclusive owner of all copyright,
> trademark and other intellectual property rights in
> and to the "Shrek 2" motion picture. No one is
> authorized to copy, reproduce, distribute, or
> otherwise use the "Shrek 2" motion picture without
> the express written permission of DreamWorks.
[...]
> As you may be aware, Internet Service Providers can
> be held liable if they do not respond to claims of
> infringement pursuant to the requirements of the
> Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). In
> accordance with the DMCA, we request your assistance
> in the removal of infringements of the "Shrek 2"
> motion picture from this web site and any other sites
> for which you act as an Internet Service Provider.
> We further declare under penalty of perjury that we
> are authorized to act on behalf of DreamWorks and
> that the information in this letter is accurate.
> Please contact me immediately to discuss this matter
> further.
The response:
As you may or may not be aware, Sweden is not a state in the United States of America. Sweden is a country in northern Europe.
Unless you figured it out by now, US law does not apply here.
For your information, no Swedish law is being violated.
Please be assured that any further contact with us, regardless of medium,
will result in
a) a suit being filed for harassment
b) a formal complaint lodged with the bar of your legal counsel, for
sending frivolous legal threats.
It is the opinion of us and our lawyers that you are *bleep* morons, and
that you should please go *bleep* yourself with retractable batons.
Please also note that your e-mail and letter will be published in full on
http://www.thepiratebay.org.
Go *bleeeeep* yourself.
Polite as usual,
anakata
Needless to say, they didn't write back, because, just like Neo, it was all a scare tactic....their hands are tied as well. Thus is the glory of globilization. Thinking you can control legal matters in all of the world in a farce.